Forums

My perspective is from the human side of a very personable, very athletic and very happy mastiff. I personally think that the off-leash parks in Seattle are perfect in many different respects, especially in the diversity that they present to the individual owners. From what I understand, the simple concept of the off-leash park is rather unique and special compared to many communities where just the idea of "off-leash Park" is foreign - let alone ever executed.

Marymoor Park and Magnusson Park are really special in that they provide a huge open space for all types and personalities of humans and beasts to have their own space. Mariah (my dog) really enjoys any opportunity she gets to go to Marymoor Park and explore all that it offers. My criticism of Marymoor is that it is too large. On a busy day there will be a hundred (or hundreds) of dogs, most of which are of enjoying their own world and paling up with other dogs enjoying their freedom. Unfortunately, dogs will be dogs and birds of a feather flock together ...both clichés I know, but none the less true. I have experienced some very unpleasant situations where human tempers have flared into ugly events because dogs have been largely left unchecked to run, or a less-then-socialized dog is not closely supervised.

To the other extreme (in size only) is a park like Third & Bell, a small corner lot - 100'x100', in downtown Seattle. This park, on a busy day, can share the same density if not greater then Marymoor. However, because of the small area the park occupies, rarely if ever, is a dog not supervised by at minimum its owner and usually an additional one or two other responsible owners. I have enjoyed this park since I attended its opening day event more then five years ago. I have had one dog that loved every one of his last days there, and I was so lucky to make the acquaintance of my present dog there. If given the opportunity every pet owner should be so lucky to enjoy the sense of community that this park offers. Not only is this an incredible park for dogs to have a place to exercise and socialize it's a great place for the people in Seattle to gather and create community in this neighborhood.

I fully support the small, pocket size off-leash parks as a great use of public land that might otherwise go under-utilized or worse, abused by social indigents like Third & Bell had been. As far as my opinion of the I-5 Colonnades Park, it's the only one I know of that has a roof....

I have brought my dog Fergie to Colonnade OLA several times and unfortunately the gravel tears up her feet. The last time we were there she was bleeding within about 5 minutes. It was bad enough that she had to lay low for several days.

She is a very fast runner and usually tears up the ground when she takes off so I need to be careful where I run her.

If they had a different ground material I'd use the park more often. I actually like the location and don't mind that it's under the freeway.

I LOVE that the city is converting little-used land into OLAs, and hope that this trend continues- for both small neighborhood pocket parks and larger 'destination' parks. I just hope that they do adequate research on locations and layout and ground materials before starting builds. Perhaps holding a focus group with COLA dog park users would be a good idea? I'd hate to see them waste money on something that doesn't get used, if the same money can be spent in areas that will be highly utilized. Or if, in the case of Colonnade, specific changes could result in more users.

I used to go to the dog parks. I really do think they are great. But, after seeing two major dog fights at parks, another dog attack a weak, sickly dog and then seeing a warning sign about another dog attack in which a dog died, I just had enough. They are great ideas and most of the time fun places to visit. However, I just grew tired of the few in-attentive owners that show up. In the cases I witnessed, that really was the problem; owners just not paying attention to their dog.

Like I said, the idea of an off leash park is great. It is good use of space in the city/county that would otherwise just sit there as an empty lot. However, I just wish there was some way to feel a bit safer for my dog; someway to hold the owners accountable. It's not the dogs, it's the owners whom do not monitor their dogs that can be a problem.

I also posted a blog on the seattle pi about dog parks

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/thedailybiscuit...

The problem with them is not the dogs, but the owners. I think it's great for some dogs, but for others, no. Small dogs shouldn't be running around with large, high prey instinct dogs, and owners need to watch their dogs and they don't always do that. My intact male German Shepherd has had neutered males approach him aggressively but thankfully, he'll come straight to me. If the owner doesn't get a hold of the offending dog, we leave.

I have seen too many dominant dogs at the dogpark to warrant me going back. I may take my Loki to Edmonds OLA to play in the water, but never to Marymoor. I have seen a little Chihuahua at the Edmonds beach with 5 huskies as well. What are the owners thinking? Bringing a tiny dog like that to a dog park with large dogs? Newsflash people--not all dogs are loving, friendly types. Some really DO want to eat your pocket pooch so if you love it, keep it away from the dog park.

I agreed with your comments, Gina, right up to the last sentence. Why should the Chihuahua stay home? Because the Huskies are big, untrained and ill-mannered? That's akin to saying I shouldn't take my 5-year-old to play kick ball in a park field where 17-year-olds kids are also playing frisbee. If he ambles into their game, do they have the right to trample him? Should I keep him home because those big hairy adolescents can be unpredictable, and gosh that's just the way it goes?

Offleash dog parks are community spaces where every citizen, dog and human, should behave with respect for others, and where everyone should be safe and welcome. If those huskies' owners don't have enough control over their dogs, then the huskies should stay home. The Chihuahua should be welcome, regardless of his size. This isn't the tundra. I don't go to Marymoor for exactly the reason you describe. My husband was attacked by some idiot's uncontrolled Rottweiler, and on an earlier visit my mannerly springer was bullied by 2 unsupervised German Shepherds. In both cases the biggest beasts were the owners. It's about community, not instinct for heaven's sake.

I agree with many of the comments and will echo the main concern, which is untrained owners and their untrained dogs. Unfortunately, I am going to use a stereotype, even though I know it is not always the case, but be honest, most stereotypes exist for a reason.
Many individuals who tend to think it's "cool" own an aggressive dog are also the type of people who tend to showcase their dogs aggression instead of learning how to control it. I personally love Dobermans, Rotts, Akitas, and many other large breeds, but I tend to dislike many of the individuals that choose to own these dogs. I even have friends that talk about how cool and tough it would be to own a Pitbull. I always follow their comments with "until it hurts another dog or adult or child because you haven't trained the dog and yourself properly".
I have been to many off-leash parks; Marymoor, North Acres, Edmonds, Magnuson, etc.. and overall I think they are great. But I do watch my dog very closely becauase she has been attacked before. A person with a boxer was too busy drinking their latte and talking on their cell phone to watch and control their dog. Once it started attacking my bernese mountain dog, i had no choice by to grab the boxer by its harness and throw it about 10 feet. I never want to hurt a dog, but I am not going to let my dog, whom I invest a lot love and time in training, be hurt by some irresponsible owners dog. My last comments: Off-leash parks are great, but watch your dog and scout out the other dogs. You will quickly be able to spot the untrained dogs and owners and then you can make the choice to leave.

Yes, it is instinct for certain dogs with high prey instinct. It's commonly known that artic breeds will hunt and kill small prey, which sometimes come in the form of Chihuahuas. Tiny, pocket dogs do not belong at the dog park. Period. Unless it's a small dogs only area.

It has nothing to do with training and unfortunately, that is the problem. Humans thinks dogs should not behave like dogs. There are aggressive dogs out there, who were never socialized, but a husky being a husky is not aggressive. It's quite ignorant to think that a high prey drive dog, like a SAR dog, will not have its instinct kick in and go after a small pocket dog. How many huskies and mals kill cats? Many. So many that they end up in shelters. Why? Because igorant owners get these dogs not understanding that instinct takes over, it's an animal. It will kill your cats, your neighbor cats or any other small furry snack that it wants. Not all behave this way, but some do. You never know when/if your dog's instinct will kick in.

It's a risk owners of tiny, pocket dogs take. If they truly cared about their dog it wouldn't be at a dog park romping with large breeds. They would find areas where it's small dogs only. Even NOAH in Stanwood realizes there's a problem mixing tiny dogs with larger breeds so has a designated time allowed in their OLA for small dogs only. Yes, small dogs can be dominant and aggressive also, but the damage is less than if a 130lb Mal had gotten a hold of it. I have seen many a small dog act aggressive to my timd Shepherd but he avoids them.

BTW Bob, you did the right thing. I would have done the same thing myself. Once a dominant dog wants to dominate yours, if the owner does nothing, I do. I have 3 though, and rarely will a dog approach one in a dominant way because they always know his pack is right behind him.

I'll stick to my own backyard.

The fact is that all dogs CAN and WILL get along with each other but only IF they don't have to be the dominant dog. Thats the responsibility of their owners and the humans at the dog park.

Sadly so far I have seen that most of the owners at dog parks are the ones who need to be on leashes, NOT the dogs. People simply do not know how to train or control their dogs or how to properly socialize them.

Twice I have had my Boston Terrier to Magnusson and had him attacked by an agressive dog, and yes in the little dog fenced area. The most recent, I nearly lost it when the owner didn't even respond to his dog holding mine down and biting his head. I had to restain myself from throwing the dog over the fence. I went off on the owner and he responded with "we come here 5 times a week" as though because he comes more often, he can do whatever he wanted.

I told him flat out the next time it happens, I would remove his dog and him from the park. He said it was just part of dominance. IF he wants dominance, I will show him what a dominant dog will do to his dog and to him. The dog will go over the fence to be seperated and the owner will get dominated (maybe I will hold him down in the dirt and whack him in the head a few times like his dog does to mine).

Plain and simple, people have to make their dogs behave, if they won't, they need to remove their dog and themselves from public areas. If they won't, then they need to be removed themselves.

To my fellow owners,
I'd have to agree on Seattle Bob's comments.. When I go to a unleashed dog park, I automatically spot the UNTRAINED owners/dogs right away.. I have a APBT, so going in public with her is always a challenge.. Although she has passed the obedience classes and training courses, it is still MY responsibility if she gets out of hand.. Thank god she hasn't so far. I've had a bad experience the other day at the unleashed dog park when a gentleman and his LabMix were all over the place. By that I mean the owner didn't have control and his lab and was the dominant bully in the dog park. I took myself to an somewhat isolated corner of the park and mr. lab shows up to push around my APBT. She automatically knows to come to me and sits awaiting her next command. The lab then growls and pushes her on the ground, while my pitbull does the surrender stance/mode. Meanwhile the owner of the lab is smoking a cigar/cig half way across the park. At that moment I had two choices, if i told my pitbull the heel/roll command she will just play dead pretty much, enough time for me to pull this lab out of the way. My other choice would've been to just kick the other damn dog and leave before anyone notices. lol Anyway, I did the first choice and that stupid lab tried to drag my pitbull by the collar and nipped her ear. We ended up leaving, me being pissed off yelling at the other owner, and my poor pitbull with a cut on her ear. I HATE STUPID OWNERS! It wasn't the lab's fault, maybe it wasn't socialized well or trained well.. BUT PLEASE WATCH YER DAMN DOGS WHEN YER IN PUBLIC!

As an obsessive dog owner I've been to my fair share of dog parks. It's the situation where my 17 pound puggle gets chased down by the 70-80 pound dogs that really get me going.

About a month ago my dog and I had gone to the park with my boyfriends dog who is probably 8 times the size of my dog however, they get along great and they could chase eachother around all day long. On this day a dog that i believe was a mastiff (i have nothing against these dogs) decided while walking with his owner to start chasing down every dog in this park. Including mine. Don't get me wrong my pup loves to play and he probaly though it was all a game at first but this guys dog had no idea how to play his dog literally rand my dog over 3 or 4 times. Not to mention there was an old couple walking through the park that the dog nearly plowed over. I'm not one to get angry about things but I was not happy that the owner of the dog just strolled around not evenm paying attention while his giant dog went crazy. Fortunately, my dog was okay but he didn't want to play at the park anymore while we were there and just sat behind me wherever I went.

This is just one situation. I am an advocate for these kinds of parks but owners needs to keep there dog on a leash if they did a bad job training them.

OK, so here's a question:
What about pushy barking? I was at Luther Burbank's dog park last week. It's usually really well mannered, both humans and dogs. Actually it's my favorite off-leash park. The people are gracious, and even apologize when their dogs grab someone else's ball. Last weekend there was a big muscular lab mix who was incessantly chasing and barking at the other dogs. The owners sat back on the bench assuring everyone that he was 'just playing.' I'm no dog expert, but it seemed like bad manners. Some of the stronger dogs just played around him, but most others just avoided him. Is this aggressive? It drove me nuts, and my smallish springer stayed clear.

I should clarify: The dog never stopped barking: approaching dogs and bark bark barking at them. So what kind of behavior is that?

Thing is, any aggressive or badly behaved dog is a potential problem or cause of mass mayhem - and that includes the little ones whose owners often think the aggressive behavior is merely "cute".

Like Mr. B. I own a dog of a supposedly problem breed. My dog however is an Akita. Like his, my dog (Angel) has been well trained and well socialized. He's not dominant, he's actually rather submissive. He even lies in a down stay till he has permission to play if on lead. But even on lead he's been openly attacked by smaller dogs. Trust me, it's not "cute" just because your dog is small or even simply "smaller than he is".

All dogs should be properly trained and socialized. This is necessary for being in public and of particular importance if the dog is going to be off lead around people or other dogs.

Oh, and even though it's an off leash area please remember to pick up your poop.

And to answer K's Mom, constant barking can indicate fear, agression, boredom or other problems. Whatever it is, it's an off-kilter dog, which is why the other dogs avoided the barker.

I'd like to see Seattle do what other cities have done and make all park off-leash at certain hours of the day (usually 6-9 am).

We have a loving Lab-mix who loves dog parks. She also goes to an outdoor doggie daycare 3 days a week located out in the country in Snohomish County. So she is what you would called very socialized.

I agree that the good dog parks have separate areas for small and big dogs. But, not because of the prey issue. I think owners should be responsible enough to watch their dogs for when they start the hunt/kill behavior. But, when you get a pack of 10-15 large dogs running at full speed, a small dog will get very nervous, and will often bark/approach the pack. But, a pack will not stop and I have seen quite a few small dogs run over by the pack. Same thing with a small dog playing with a big dog. They run/stop differently. A big dog will innocently step on a small dog while being completely social. Mass is mass.

If cities continue to push high-density housing and people no longer have yards to play/train their dogs, then the cities must provide an alternative place to socialize and train our animals.

We need off-leash space to teach well needed skills. This includes training in the distraction of other dogs and people. Without this, we will raise a generation of aggressive and untrained animals, undoing generations of training.

We own two adorable Bostons who have a bit too much energy for apartment living. Every weekend we make the 5 mile trek to Marymoor. A few times we have had issues, and I think it is BOTH dog and owner.
There are some dogs who are just not meant to be in OLA. There are some owners who have no business bringing their dog or their attitude either. Our dogs have been kicked by owners and attacked by dogs of all sizes. Instinct will kick in and our dogs go into self defense mode. This is only exasperated by the fact that we bring our 2 1/2 year old son to the park as well. Our dogs are protective, more vocally then physically.
I am more concerned for the families who bring their children to enjoy a family outing with the 4 legged members.
On a couple occasions our son has been jumped on, knocked down and nipped at (we then leave immediatly). Not once has a single person apologized, sometimes I wonder if the dog was just dropped off or the owner should be on a leash! I have see other children, aside from ours, come nose to nose with dogs who have the unsavory breed reputation (pits for example). This just makes every parent, human or k9 nervous.
I think these OLA's are a fantastic idea but until people go back to being responsible and unselfish, we are always going to have issues. I sometimes feel that there should be big dog, little dog and mixed dog areas.

I understand the points regarding ill-dog behavior and unmindful owners but common sense would seem to dictate that a 2 1/2 child does not belong roaming about a group of dogs who are running around enjoying their freedom. Even non-savory breeds might tend to knock down children who are physically on their level whether by accident or because they lack the understanding of how fragile children are. They are dogs afterall... beyond that I appreciate how well maintained the dogs parks in Seattle are and can say my dog and I have had nothing but good experiences thus far.

I used to live in Eastlake, and we took our dog there all of the time. It was a great dog park to go to because when there were people there, they were always nice, good dog owners. Furthermore, it was a great place to introduce our dogs to the idea of a dog park because there were never huge crowds of dogs there.

We have two of those love-to-fetch-other-dog's balls dogs, so we can't go to places like Magnuson because people are not at all understanding of that. I have never understood why dog owners bring their dogs to a dog park if they do not want their dogs to play with other dogs, or at least are not willing to take the risk of another dog wanting to fetch their dog's neglected ball.

We have since moved, and it isn't convenient for us anymore. (Although, if it is raining we will take a drive down to the colonnade because it stays reasonably dry) We have however, found a pretty good park on 130th. It can get crowded, and there are some less than desirable owners.